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  1.  

    Does a misanthrope not need anyone or anything to bring familiar/familiar comfort? Is a misanthrope an island, while no man is? I would have said no, earlier; however, you're making an argument that you would actually be happy in DP's later position in life. Or do I not understand how extreme you meant that? Your take on the scene with him target-shooting in his home in his bathrobe with a collection of bottles at his feet - happy, bored, unhappy, ? My take was unhappy and lonely, but too stubborn and isolated (and nuts) to admit it, and besides, not like there was anything that could be done. But tell me what you think, you make a good argument.

    :)

    • CommentAuthormoocko
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2008
     

    There certainly is some misanthropy in DP, but I passionately  doubt that he is comfortable with it. Actually, I think one point the film makes is that DP is having big troubles with how he reacts and feels, and can't help it. In a conversation with his false brother, he says that he wants enough money that he can get away from everyone, as though it would make him happier. But in the end, I think it's pretty clear that he isn't. As you say, localvixen, he's an alcoholic. And he's in bad shape, and miserable and alone... He lies on the ground in a private bowling alley, a place intended for friends to associate, play and have a good time. There he lies alone, drunk. During the journey that is this fantastic film, he got everything material and gained nothing emotional or spiritual.

    • CommentAuthorannesophie
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2008
     

    One of the more controversial aspects of this movie is the use of music.  It seems to be a love-hate kind of thing; I admit I'm firmly in the 'love' category.  It's impossible for me to separate this move from the music.  The Brahms violin concerto in particular works on many levels for me.  Of course Brahms (1833-1897) was the contemporary music of the time.  But there are many other reasons it fits the story so well.  Brahms is firmly in the tradition of classical composers such as Mozart and Haydn, not necessarily recognized (in his lifetime, anyway) as a radical innovator.  But there is a "perfection" to his music, such that it is difficult to imagine it any other way.  An inevitability, if you will.  DP was a silver miner, with an attention to detail that served him extremely well (at least professionally) in the oil business.

    I am a violinist, and I have studied the Brahms violin concerto for many years.  The end of the 3rd movement (heard at the end of the film) includes one of the most exhilarating codas ever written.  At the conclusion of the piece, after a series of thrilling climaxes, there is a short denouement, followed by three simple tonic chords.  I'm-fin-ished.  And then it's over.  Perfect.  The use of this music couldn't possibly have been an accident.

  2.  

    wow, annesophie, i'm sure i'm not the only one that appreciates this posting. i know nothing about music, so happy/delighted to hear from an expert on the movie score. when i first saw the movie, i thought the opening sequence was irritating/overwhelming. I remember thinking, it's too loud. but after watching it, i find myself thinking of the action in the movie moving right alongside the music, a perfect pairing. so i'm also in the love category.

     

    if you have anymore insights bout the score, please share.

    • CommentAuthorannesophie
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2008
     

    Thank you for the kind words, localvixenwoman.   It's very tempting and easy to take this kind of thing too far, but I couldn't help myself just a little!

    Everyone has their demons.  When it's all said and done, we all overcome them to a greater or lesser degree.  While few of us will end up in a blood-soaked private bowling alley, the conceit of TWBB is to tell this truly universal story in a particular, compelling time and place.  To me the music serves as the filmmaking device which expresses the reality of DP's personal demons.  Yes it's loud, and intrusive, perhaps excessive, but who says demons are supposed to be polite?  This could have been expressed in a much more straightforward manner -- flashbacks, voiceovers, narration -- but the result would have been a much different film, to say the least.  The joyous music at the end of the movie is startlingly, shockingly inappropriate following a scene of such brutal violence.  But the irony melts away when you realize that Daneil's struggle is finally over, for better or worse, and even a deeply flawed life deserves to be celebrated.  Ultimately TWBB is a story of forgiveness.

  3.  

    Looking at it that way is very interesting. The scene at the beginning, with Daniel alone in the ground with that overwhelming music, all encompassing then softening so we hear his axe and the sounds of the rocks... I'll bet a person goes through a lot of dark, strange struggles when they are alone like that for periods of time, whether self-imposed or not, and the music seems to mirror that, oscillating between periods of loud intrusiveness and barely-audible calm. Also, I think of the music as it picks up again when Daniel is in the ocean, as the paranoia sets in and he begins to believe Henry is not his brother. The music matches the pandemonium probably going on in his brain, along with voices, noise, odd sounds... it sounds like insanity.

    also, "who says demons are supposed to be polite?" :) that may be my line for the day.

  4.  

    I guess this is on topic, but speaking of the "I'm finished" line-- I don't know if anyone else is a fan of South Park, but the latest episode just referenced that exact line. There is a vicious fight scene in which the main character, Cartman, is beaten and bloodied, lying face down on the ground. His attacker breathes heavily, plops to the ground, and then says, "I'm finished!"

    I laughed pretty hard.

    • CommentAuthormoocko
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2008
     

    plainviewoil: I'm a big fan of South Park and I just saw the episode a few minutes ago. Didn't really laugh, but it was nicely done and is probably my favorite homage to TWBB so far (maybe this should be in the parody-thread, but this was really more of an homage than a parody). :-)

  5.  

    The "I'm finished" line seems to be the perfect culmination to an intensely strange, terrifying, and hilarious final scene.  I don't think I've ever loved and ending to a film so much.  I usually hate movie endings, no matter how much I enjoyed the rest of it, because they just never seem to end right.  This one did.  In utter perfection, actually.

    I think every post above me made good arguments to the underlying tone and allegory of this line.  I don't know that I have anything else to add.  I think DP is one of the most complex characters to grace the screen in a long time (actually no others come to mind at this moment, DP owns), and I think the "hidden meanings" in this line could be infinite.  As to the debate whether Daniel was really happy with where his life was, or whether he was just too stubborn to admit he was lost, I personally think it could go either way.  They both seem like equally logical paths this character would take.

  6.  
    i actually think hes overjoyed when he finishes eli...you can almost see the smile on his face as he says "im finished". when hes talking to henry earlier he says what i think is one of the most important lines in the film, "i have a competetion inside me, i want no one else to succeed". he was willing to let henry in but only bc he was "family", once he figured him out, it was over...when HW tells him hes leaving with mary, DP takes this as his only family killing their bond so he cuts HW down the best way he knows how...when eli comes back, it seemed like a moment dp has been waiting for since the baptism (which is why all it took to wake him was the sound of elis name). "are things down for you eli?" he wanted to hear that eli was beaten and broken, but since eli was too naive and proud to admit it and kept pleading with dp for help, it almost seems like dp was putting eli out of his misery when he clubbed him, thereby leaving no one else close to dp the chance to be successful in his mind......also i th
  7.  
    ...got cut off....final thought on that is that DP was "finished" with his competition, leaving him the victor...what do you all think? i want to add more but im at work...will add more later...
  8.  
    I think this line has many meanings. From the POV of Daniel it basically serves two pourposes. #1. to inform the butler he is finshed with his meal and his meeting. #2 to inform any "powers that be" that he has completed his goal of defeating everyone, and thus, satisfying his competition envy. Eli was the last piece of this puzzle for Daniel. At thier last known interaction, Eli actaully gets the best of Daniel. Humiliating him in front of others and forcing him to declare statements he belived but did not wish to discuss. You can really get a sense of how much this "defeat" bothered Daniel in the scene where he is watching Eli leave on a train for his mission. So, in thier final confrontation, Daniel turns the tide on Eli, ensuring he is the victor in their "battles" and in life. With everyone else beaten, Daniels competion envy is satisfied, and thus, he "is finished"
  9.  
    Has anyone actually noticed the way DP is sitting at the end? If you look at the walls you see that the top part is painted white while the bottom half is red, which is where he is sitting. Is this supposed to represent him from being all high and mighty to hitting (rock) bottom?
      Screen shot 2010-04-14 at 11.35.08 PM.jpg
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