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    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2008
     

    I saw TWBB as I was reading East of Eden, and I didn't really notice anything similar between the two of them until I came closer to finishing the novel... which actually happened today. The two core stories really aren't alike at all; East of Eden is much more blatantly Biblical in its plot than TWBB and has absolutely nothing at all to do with oil, though it's set in California in basically the same time period. Actually, I didn't notice any really significant similarities. There was just one funny thing that caught my eye: towards the end of the book, there's a mention of "the Peachtree Dance."

    Now, I don't know why that sticks with me so much. It's not really a big deal in either of the pieces at hand, but it just seems so funny that it wouldn't be in there on purpose. Like I said, they are set pretty close to each other--Salinas, of course, is a real place whereas Little Boston (to the best of my knowledge) isn't, but they both make mention of King City as being a fairly closeby landmark (I think. Didn't Henry say he came from there?). For some inexplicable reason, this weird little connection makes me really happy. I don't quite get it, but in that spirit:

    Did anyone else notice any tiny, seemingly-coincidential allusions in the film?

    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008 edited
     
    It seems we have a new development here...

    Excuse all the swearing on my part, but I got excited and have been more vulgar than I've intended lately anyway. Somebody on another fansite--holymilkshakes? anyone familiar?--posted some images from the film along with questions, and I noticed a very familiar quote as I read through the text on a still of Henry's diary, which I've attached onto here. I dunno how readable it is, but this was my reaction.

    At first: "...is that third cap referencing East of Eden? Because I think part of the bit in the diary is ALMOST a direct quote from the first chapter. Almost."

    So, after I said this, I realized I had a copy of East of Eden in my bag and took it out and checked. Sure enough (here comes the vulgarity!): "YES YOU GUYS IT FUCKING IS

    CHAPTER 1 OF EAST OF EDEN, FIRST PARAGRAPH:

    "The Salinas Valley is in Northern California. It is a long narrow stale between two ranges of mountains, and the Salinas River winds and twists up the center until it falls at last into Monterey Bay."

    THE MOTHERFUCKING DIARY ENTRY:

    "My club [?] is in the Salinas Valley, between two mountain ranges--the Salinas River winds and twists up its center until it falls into Monterey Bay. I know this is where I'll die."

    I FUCKING KNEW IT. This movie has so many random connections to EoE it makes my insides all giggly. I mean, THE PEACHTREE DANCE? THAT SHIT CANNOT BE A COINCIDENCE. THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY PEACHTREE DANCES IN THE WORLD, GUYS. And there was so much tension! And Eli launching himself at HIS FATHER WHO IS NAMED ABEL! I fucking called this and it makes me so happy. It is like Paul Thomas Anderson took my current favorite thing, shoved it in a box with my other current favorite thing, and put a bow on top.

    I love my powers of observation."

    Anybody have any thoughts on this? I'm convinced there's at least SOME conscious connection now. There's no way that'd get in there coincidentally.

      DSFHELWHRLEKW.jpg
    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008 edited
     
    I apologize for the lack of line breaks up there--for some reason my Mac doesn't want to cooperate with me!

    Eep! Nevermind. I fixed it.
    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008
     

    I didn't get too far with googling "Peacetree Dance."  Anyone have any information?

  1.  

    That's pretty cool, kokakola.

    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008
     
    Having read my comments a few times, I just now realize that I sound absolutely hysterical. I'm torn between embarrassment and unceasing laughter...but oh well! The point still stands.
    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008
     

    No, this is interesting.  I wish I had READ E of E, because the horrific Jane Seymour mini-series version is in my mind and won't leave. This  certainly opens up a lot of speculation about PTA's research and influences!  (At least DP didn't say "I'm finished, now you can go put on the green light at the end of the dock.")  Forgive my literary humor, but I couldn't resist.

    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2008
     
    I've never had the (dis)pleasure of seeing any adaptation of it, I've just read the thing. It's really worth it, if you're ever inclined to give it a try; the Biblical overtones are really obvious, but the story itself is still interesting, lots of family dynamic stuff. I really was surprised to see that quote, though. I figured that I was just sort of imagining parallels because I was reading it at the same time I saw the movie, but apparently not!
  2.  

    That's awesome! Here's an excerpt from an interview between PTA and Lars von Trier where PTA talks about Steinbeck's significance:

    PTA: You know, Lars, when I saw Dogville, it wasn't about America to me. It was about any small-town, small-minded mentality, and it wasn't about America until the end.

    LVT: No. I agree completely. The only thing that I've done about America, or that should connect with America, is a kind of positive feeling that I'm trying to create, some things that I remember from Steinbeck or Mark Twain--feelings, or settings--

    PTA: --Go back, I can't believe this, 'cause Steinbeck has been an obsession of mine for the past year. Did you read him a lot?

    LVT: When I was young, yeah.

    PTA: There's a collection of short stories called America and Americans, which is amazing, and I wanted to give it to you. There's a bit in it straight from Dogville, and it's meant so much to me over the past year, because he fought in World War II, he wrote about Vietnam, he wrote from the McCarthy hearings, and he saw it all. He was really a great novelist, but he was a journalist as well, and one of the great American writers.

  3.  

    Maybe it's about time for a Steinbeck renaissance. He's one of those authors who lost his luster over the decades. sure, some of his stuff is still read in high school and at the undergraduate college level, but he doesn't seem to be taken all that seriously. Maybe it's time to rethink that.

    It's like Jack London. He used to be huge, especially in the Soviet Union. But in America he's pretty much just considered a writer of boy's books.

    At my university, the old library building had these tall, two-story high windows. Underneath  each window was carved the name of a great writer. And  there along with Shakespeare, Sophocles, and Homer, was the name "Poe." But Poe is not regarded as highly in 2008 as he was in the 1920s when that library was built.

    And who knows--maybe it's time to give another look at Upton Sinclair.

  4.  

    ...not to mention the other Sinclair -- Sinclair Lewis, almost totally unread these days. If you want a picture of the tastes and smells and sensibilities of small-town America during the early part of the century, nothing beats Sinclair Lewis. I suspect PTA gave Elmer Gantry a quick read, since a couple of Eli's healing exhortations come straight out of Elmer's (and probably Billy Sunday's) mouth.

    I might be wrong on this, but I thought I recall an interview in the last couple of months where DD-L said he was reading some American authors he hadn't read before, including Steinbeck. Pretty likely if PTA also was re-discovering him. Anyway, I just pulled a copy of East of Eden from the library -- right under the ten shelves of shiny bright Danielle Steel books it was -- and will begin to re-read it tonight. I loved it when I was 15, so we'll see.

  5.  

    I thought about including Sinclair Lewis, but was afraid I was veering off on a tangent.

    Once I lived in a college town. I was miserable and practically friendless.I hated my job. So I got a community user's library card and started checking stuff out of the college library. I especially liked the old books they had hidden in the dark stacks of the original wing of the library. They were arranged by the old Dewey Decimal system, rather than the Library of Congress system used in the newer parts of the library. I found so many cool old books there, all sorts of wisdom and delight that was long-forgotten. I checked out books that hadn't been checked out in my lifetime, and a few that hadn't been checked out in my mother's lifetime. (She was born in 1942.)

    If memory serves, Billy Sunday started life as a baseball player.Then he got religion and became an evangelist, but he kept his athletic exertions in his act--jumping and reaching and sliding around. That was part of his appeal with the people--he put on one goddamn helluva  show.

    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
     

    Henry really reminded me of a Steinbeck character, ill-used, in jail (on a chain-gang no less), no success.

    EW, you're right about Billy Sunday.  Did you see his sermon titles?

    When I worked in a library, they had early 18th. century books in the circulating stacks, even though the librarians denied it and said that they had all been pulled and put in Special Collections, where I worked for eight years, and thus ruined my life and aspirations ; )

  6.  

    Wow, those sermon titles seem awfully familiar, don't they?

    I used to haunt the UT architecture library, especially during the summer, and I was especially fond of the pre-World War II bound architectural magazines. I used to photocopy from them a lot and I'd always see the architectural archivist peering around the corner, giving me the stink-eye. Finally she had all the old bound mags moved downstairs to the archive,out of my reach.

    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
     

    In my experience, rare books librarians and archivists HATE people actually using the materials.  We had a collection from a major abolitionist, and when I suggested that we call C-Span and have BookTV do a spot on it,  the librarians looked at me like I had just suggested that we burn the stuff.

    You know, the minister who preforms Mary and HW's (Episcopalian) wedding is apparently the real deal.  He's credited as Rev. somebody, don't know the name.

    • CommentAuthormgreen
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008 edited
     

    East of Eden was included in Oprah's Book Club in 2003. http://www.amazon.com/East-Eden-Oprahs-Book-Club/dp/0670033049 and http://www2.oprah.com/obc_classic/featbook/eastofeden/obc_featbook_eastofeden_main.jhtml 

    I remember seeing scores of copies piled on top of one another in the book section at my local Costco, thanks to OBC.

    There is also a second film adaptation of the novel in the works, set for a 2009 release  http://imdb.com/title/tt0419717/

    I had to read a few Steinbeck short stories in high school and I remember disliking them. I have to at least give East of Eden a try now, though. Laughing

    And re: Elmer Gantry-- I actually saw a decades old copy of it at my library a few weeks ago. I read the first few pages but didn't check it out. Now I'm going to have to find it again and compare Gantry's dialogue with Eli's, LOL.

     

     

    • CommentAuthorkokakola
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2008 edited
     
    So rewatching the film this week has made me realize something else: Henry's situation, when he first shows up in Little Boston, is exactly like Adam's when he comes back to Connecticut after having gone away to Boston, etc. etc. I don't know how much his background was touched on in the movie or miniseries versions, but basically what happens is he does a lot of Very Bad Things, then gets arrested--just like Henry--for something he actually didn't do. And then--just like Henry--he gets put on a chain gang.

    He and Charles are also half-brothers, and though Henry and DP aren't actually family, that'd be their relation if the whole story were true. Charles also played the Cain to Adam's Abel, he just didn't succeed in killing him--whereas DP sure as hell killed Henry, and he buried him too.
  7.  

    Just purchased East of Eden, so cant read your observations, but am looking forward to it.  Two people I know just finished grapes of Wrath and tehy both loved it and told me I must read it.

    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2008
     

    Armies,

    It's great propaganda for the New Deal, but it's emotionally wrenching.  Really, really sad.  I hated traveling by car for quite a while after reading it (this was before flying completely sucked.)  In it, every horrible thing that can happen to the Joad family happens, and then it gets worse.

    • CommentAuthorsamenzhen
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2010