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The Bowling Alley: Daniel's sexuality

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  1.  
    Does anyone think Daniel is a repressed homosexual? Given the times his character lived, his lack of interest or history with women, his serious abuse of himself, and of course, his overarching need to be the best and most successful, at any cost. Seems like he's dealing with something. Thoughts?
    • CommentAuthorEOTW
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2008
     

    In the shooting script, it mentions in a couple of spots that Plainview is impotent.  He mentions to Henry that his "cock" doesn't work.  I just read on Defamer that a lot of folks seem to think he is gay, but I just don't agree with that.  I've seen the film three times now and that thought has never crossed my mind.

    Also of note i that the fact that also in the shooting script is a scene where we are to see Plainview on his knees in front of a woman, apparently going down on her or just finished and he gives her money and she lives.  I kinda hope this scene wasn't shot.  I mean, does Daniel Plainview strike you as a guy who eats pussy?  I just can't see it.

  3.  

    Straight, gay—doesn't matter. Daniel doesn't really show any sexual inclination. Sure, there's the Peachtree Dance, but he hugs the wall and drinks. Remember, Daniel says very clearly he hates people, he wants to get away from them—all of them. Intimacy, just doesn't fit into that. Certainly, Daniel plunges into the ground, hammers away in a dark cave, creates jets of oil—all clear signifiers of male sexual conquest, ejaculation, rape—what have you. He is not a breeder though—he sews no seeds and creates no children, only a simulacrum of himself  in H.W. he rejects. Eli is, in some sense, a son to him—in other senses not. Whatever the case, he is another orphan in Daniel's mind, someone raised by cattle. But motherhood, womanhood and sexuality simply don't come up (unless Eli has fallen into something with that Hollywood-bound Brand boy!!!!). Perhaps that is Daniel's problem—perhaps it is the problem of being male, capitalist, human, whatever. Note the strange moments with the young Mary Sunday daughter however. Uncomfortable, overly intimate and downright threatening, it still shows Daniel is capable of gentility and adoration. Was it sexual? The answer, with so much of TWBB is yes and no of course. In any case, he is acting on behalf of the loving concerns of young H.W., who disabled or not in his father's eyes understands love and wanting the best for others—true affection and care (something Daniel shows nascent signs of, but never actualizes). As the deaf H.W. says to his father, "You're not listening" when he says he wants to create a life with his wife. Daniel sees only competition, not the maturation of love and sex. Daniel doesn't really understand sex any more than he understands love—even the attraction of the possible domination of a woman is not interesting to him as that is only one person dominated—Daniel is on a mission to bleed the very world dry. There is no sex.

    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2008
     

    Just a thought Napkinface, there is a subtle implication that Daniel had conflict with his own father, who, we know fathered a child with another woman.  I think there is some unspoken sense that Daniel's father did NOT live up to his family obligations.  I wish I could remember the exact line about "did my mother know?"  Even when he mentions his sister's name, there seems to be a sense of sadness.  (I'm glad the scene with the prostitute was cut, I think that kind of additional character development was just not required, and wouldn't have added anything to the narrative.)

    Although, thinking of DDL as impotent is really a stretch....

  5.  

    Yeah, I think of Plainview as determinedly asexual.  He's too selfish (underneath it, perhaps too self-protective) to share his bodily fluids, let alone his heart, with anyone. 

     

    But to Napkinface:  i don't think there's anything nice about his relationship with Mary Sunday.  That moment when he grabs her and talks to her at the picnic is all just a show to infuriate Abel.  She certainly doesn't like it.

     

    I think Plainview's most intimate moment, and I'm sure some will say this isn't genuine, too, is after he's baptized and moves through the congregation and this woman hugs and kisses him and he seems to, in spite of himself, or without awareness of it, accept her affection.  Maybe it's the way it's shot, but for a moment he looks like a boy in him mother's arms....

     

  6.  

    There's actually an article on the blog Defamer addressing this issue, at http://defamer.com/352539/can-we-just-put-the-there-will-be-blood-homoeroticism-issue-on-the-table-already

    *********************************************************************************************

    There's been an ongoing There Will Be Blood debate over here at Defamer HQ, with one faction having emerged from the P.T. Anderson masterpiece convinced what we had just witnessed wasn't just a searing allegory encapsulating the epochal struggle between American capitalism and religion, but also some very kinky oil-prospector-daddy on boy-of-the-cloth goings-on. (OK, fine. That faction was us.)

    The other faction didn't see the film's homoerotic undertones as quite so glaring, even after we patiently sat them down to inquire whether they found nothing the least bit fishy about an oil man who over a period of decades demonstrates virtually no interest in the opposite sex. Instead, the man chooses to spend his life surrounded by other men, with one in particular--the only thing really standing between him and a satisfying gusher--becoming the obsessive object of his domineering tendencies. Along the way, the young preacher is subjected to gleeful, orally fixated taunts about milkshake-slurping, among other verbal and physical humiliations, all of which he submits to with a surprising, almost capitulatory ease.

    Then there's the matter of the photo above: Gotta keep things fresh!

    We rest our case.

  7.  

     I  think that he is staight, In the baptism scene I see almost a little bit of a fear to Daniel expecially around women or when women are being mentioned. When Eli mentions that daniel has sinned with women, I could see a uncomfortableness there, but did he sin with women no! Maybe he is fears being labled lecherous like his father, because his father cheated on his mother. Secondly, as some one else stated there seems to be almost a childish anxiety mother-son thing going on when he was shaking the hands of the women in the church. Second,  the last woman he hugged I could see that he seemed very fragile which is very strange for such a tough man.  Lastly, I think that I saw Daniel checking out the pretty lady that shook his hand and sat next to him in the end. I also noticed that all the women seem to do no wrong in this movie, which may have something to do with how Daniel views them, as passive and prone to harm from men. I don't think that Daniel could grasp women beyond this point probably because of the way that he was raised by his dad, if he was at all.

  8.  

    Wow. Both annieannsers  and sue  revealed a lot for me  -  yes, there is a personal psychological history to DP's behavior - no doubt.  His father was a womanizer and women are a distraction from greatness  - wasn't his father a failed version of what DP becomes?  Certainly, DP has had women (it's a part of growing up) and, yes, he momentarily connects with women along the line. These are, again, glimmers of the man he could be but cannot be.  Yeah, I caught that taking care of Mary was a move against Able - but it was also a way of taking care of his son and indulging his own romantic feelings (children don't have sex and cannot reject it when it is forced upon them so they are safe to him).  More and more, I feel Eli is homosexual (not gay)  - this would all be a reaction to his evangelism (which is simultaneously real and false) and a response to abandonment by his twin.  Certainly the Brand boy has a certain boyish simularity to Eli.  Women can be misled , whores, victims - but they are never in possession  of themselves in TWBB  save for Mary (an obvious reference to the Virgin, salvation through emotion, etc.) It is a male view of women to be sure.

  9.  

    Whoa Napkin Face you have taken me to knew levels. I never even thought that Mary represended the virgin mary that is really interesting.  I really think that PTA wrote the shit out of the screenplay with symbolism we are not going to get for years to come or until he reveals it. This movie is just so amazing!

    By the way what does "I feel that Eli is homosexual (not gay). mean?"

    • CommentAuthorsues
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2008
     

    I wonder what would have happened if Eli had attempted to fight back during the oil puddle scene?  It's so obvious that he doesn't allow Daniel to beat him out of some Christian impulse, he's just such a complete coward!  He's shrieking during the entire thing (*not* that this implies anything about his sexuality, instead I think his reaction shows what a slimy person he really is.)  PTA's placement of that scene is so perfect.  HW has been injured, Daniel's world is changed forever, and this creep comes up to him and says "where's our money?"  Of course he's going to erupt in anger.  And Eli, rather than saying "I forgive him," instead takes his revenge during the baptism scene.  And Plainview is supposed to be the villain???

    (Interestingly, in the original script, Eli shows up at Daniel's mansion with two women, referred to as "his Lady Friends"  (yeah I know, gay men have female friends, but come on, he can't wait to get a drink, his entire conduct in that scene is intended to be at odds with his "holy" image.)  But hey, what do I know?

  11.  

    Instant karma

    Homosexual just means you sleep with people of the same sex.

    Gay is a cultural identity. Think of it this way, Sen. Larry Craig is a homosexual but because he is not out of the closet and basically adopts the "straight" appearance, he is not gay. Right now I believe that Eli was in a relationship with that aspiring Hollywood kid, but, obviously he is not Oscar Wilde/Harvey Milk gay - it's all under the rug and he still would contend that lust of any kind is a sin (and he admits he has sinned, but does not mention women as he does elsewhere). Obviously, like DP he has little or no experience with women but I get the sense that he has different reasons. The fact that he doesn't fight back in the final scene has nothing to do with homosexuality - fear happens to everyone and Eli is a true emotional and spiritual coward.

  12.  

    I do think DP has a contempt for most women.Consider the talk about afterbirth and Eli's mother's "filth." the business in the script with DP performing cunnilingus just doesn't make sense to me.

  13.  

     

    Frankly, I found Daniel Plainview very sexy.  Many of you will probably hate this, but I think he should have had wife.  A woman who was there for him till the end no matter what.  But then, it would have made the movie more Atonement like so it would have been totally different.  The one part that I didnt understand was Eli was "saving" Daniel, he told him that he had "lusted after woman", which he didnt.  I was most definitely lusting after Daniel.  I have seen it twice and cannot wait for the DVD. 

     

  14.  

    Lusting after Daniel? That's strange. Then again, when I hear the word "lust," I think all sorts of stereotyped images like young men and women, not fully clothed, grizzled stately older gentleman. I'm intrigued as to how old you are.

    You must admit that if he had a wife or a mistress or a women he loved in his life, he would have been a fundamentally different person, without the bitterness and the contempt for humanity because he would have been softened by the tenderness of this woman. He could be intimate with H.W. but not enough to fill the gaping void in his heart, which in turn fueled his despair. Without the rage that resulted from that despair, he would not have been the Daniel Plainview that we have all been shaken and mesmerized by.

  15.  

    Daniel Day-Lewis is sexy.  Daniel Plainview is not.  Daniel Plainview is about as asexual of a character as they come.

  16.  

    Ah, I don't know, kissthemachine. Daniel Plainview is the ultimate alpha male. He knows what he wants and he gets it. He is a leader and organizer of men. He is clearly someone you don't tangle with. He started with nothing and achieved great wealth. He is a doting father--for awhile. He's canny and clever. He is not unattractive. He gives no orders to his men that he cannot himself carry out.  All those attributes sound sexy in my book.

  17.  

     

    if you must know, I am 37 and I found Daniel Plainview to be very sexy.  Maybe its the whole "bad boy" cliche

    because I was also very attracted to Anton Chigurh in No County for Old Men. 

  18.  

    What do you think of Michael Rooker in "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer"?

  19.  

    The closest Daniel Plainview gets to "sexy" is "mildly attractive."  In fact, at his kinder moments (especially with H.W.) he's more cute than anything.  But in terms of my asexual comment, I'm taking it from the movie.  Think about it - in movies with "bad boy" characters that have anything attractive about them, there is always at least one woman who will try to have the man accept her love or love her back.  No woman in the movie attempts or even comes near him in that capacity.  He certainly repels far more powerfully than he attracts. 

    Also, "unattractive" and "asexual" are not the same thing.

    Oh, and Metallicatt - I did feel a little twinge of "oh, I'd so hit that" with Anton.  Lol, I made him into a Mii.  He plays a mean game of billiards.  I think I'll make a Daniel and play him exclusively in the bowling game.

  20.  

     

    I still disagree with you.  I would do Daniel Plainview in minute.  I know what asexual means. That is what I said originally, that they should have given him a woman.  He could have still been mean and ruthless to others, but he would not have been with her.   She would totally understand him.   And to Whiskeymilk,  I did not care for Henry.  Micheal Rooker is appealing.  However, I have an interest in serial killers and was disappointed that they changed some of the facts about Henry Lee Lucas. 

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